Pentax K-3 Mark III

[Fab35]

Je m'interroge sur la capacité, en visée OVF, d'un capteur 307.000 points (RVBIr, donc a priori 76750 pixels en tout) de détecter et tracker des oiseaux, mais s'ils y parviennent c'est assez fort avec cette faible résolution, quand les capteurs de 20, 45 ou 50Mpix ont parfois du mal. En face-detect je pense que c'est largement faisable sur les humains, l'eye-af par déduction aussi, mais les piafs de petite taille, ça sera une première sur un DSLR si c'est bien le cas en OVF.

En liveview par contre, on se doute que la limitation ne tient plus, bien sûr, et qu'on équivaut à un ML potentiellement.

[Mattihou]

New K-3 III video from Ricoh: OVF face, eye and bird detection is coming. - PentaxForums.com

3h du mat' 

[Mattihou]

En tout cas, la traduction française auto de la vidéo est vraiment très rigolote !
Entre "la sécurisation des boeufs", "la haine des accélérateurs", ou "des ex-russe presto pour les bisous vieillis" par exemple, ça rend le message beaucoup plus fun ! 
Sinon, et bien j'aimerai bien l'utiliser un peu quand même ce boitier, ça me plaît 

[ViB]

Oui il est bien tentant, mais le prix au lancement risque de me refroidir

[clover]

Tout cela m'a mis un sourire sur mon visage ce matin.

J'espère pouvoir y passer.

[Mistral75]

Compte rendu (en anglais) de la discussion entre Kimio Tanaka et Shigeru Wakashiro à propos du K-3 Mark III :

Tanaka san - Wakashiro san online seminar about K-3 III (CP+ 2021) - PentaxForums.com

Last night I listened to the talk, which was very interesting.  It was apparent that Tanaka san was very happy about the camera (he's been using the beta unit) but wasn't afraid to ask direct questions. The talk lasted for a bit more than an hour. I'm sure they'll publish it in the future, but here's something for you based on my quick and dirty memo, roughly in chronological order.

Disclaimer: Not everything is covered (I think I captured about 70% of the topics), this is not a transcript, might contain something that's not exactly they spoke/meant, yada yada yada.

• Wakashiro san (or PENTAX?) is not thinking about making mirrorless.
  
• Tanaka: "Were'nt you planning to name it K-2?" Wakashiro (laughter): "One of the candidates, yes." Tanaka: "Ah, you had to reserve that for something else, the next one?" Wakashiro (still laughing/smiling, but watch his face when the video is released): "Well, no comment."
  
• K-3 III is a complete redesign almost from the ground up despite its K-3 name. The only parts that weren't redesigned might be the lens mount, hot shoe, battery and strap ring.
  
• Why no tilt LCD? Tanaka san wasn't happy. Wakashiro san defended using usual Pentax philosophy, also mentioned thinner body.
  
  
  
  • Tanaka san admitted later that, as he kept using the camera, he found himself just relying on OVF more and more. Also very happy about eye sensor to automatically shut LCD off. In previous cameras, when changing anything (e.g. aperture) the LCD responds even if he's using OVF, and he'd see that out of the corner of his eye, which was a distraction. Not any more.
    
• K-3III OVF has a condenser lens that works to correct distortion.
  
• There was a comparison of K-3III VS KP OVF view, also VS K-1II OVF. K-3 III view looked about the same size as K-1 II. In the chat window, a few were saying K-1II VF seems to have some coloring.
  
• They made the main mirror lighter, improved damper, and used better and more expensive coreless DC motors that start and stop very quickly for mirrors and the shutter. But Wakashiro san said that it wasn't bad in K-3 II to start with. What was essential to AF during fast bursting was the quick damping of the sub mirror assembly behind the main mirror for the AF sensor, you cannot AF while sub mirror is wobbling.
  
  
  
  • Tanaka san mentioned that blackout during burst is also better as the mirror moves more quickly, or something like that.
    
• There's no electronic shutter except for Pixel Shift Resolution. Tanaka san was unhapy and asked if they can release it as a firmware update. Wakashiro san said he thinks they should.
  
  
  
  • There's no handheld Pixel Shift Resolution. (I don't use it, but one in the chat expressed disappointment.)
    
• Tanaka san thought that the image quality is better than K-1 II, especially with high ISO. He showed comparison at ISO204800 side by side (night city), and pointed out that K-1 II showed strange horizontal line artifact in the sky, there was none in K-3 III. Both mentioned color fidelity. Black is pure black. Accurate colors. Tanaka san thought that the noise difference was about 1.5 stops (K-3 III is better). Lots of excited comments in the chat window.
  
• There was also a comparison with KP at ISO409600. Color is strange on KP, lots of color noise, black doesn't look black. Wakashiro san said he used to think that color fidelity of KP was good even at high ISO, that PENTAX always paid attention for color fidelity regardless of ISO. Tanaka san made fun saying "but that was not the case", and Wakashiro san responded by saying that K-3 III is closer to PENTAX's ideal in that regard.
  
• For in-camera jpeg, they used to have "Sharpness", "Fine sharpness" and "Extra sharpness". The latter two were combined into to one "Fine Sharpness II", and this will be the default for jpeg shooters. Some conversation about the differences that I wasn't able to write down.
  
• Wider AF coverage -> larger AF sensor -> larger sub mirror -> had to move the main mirror position -> had to move the pentaprism position. Interesting to me to be told from an engineer how one feature affects everything.
  
• OVF subject recognition works for human faces and eyes, birds and cars for now. Eye detection means just that, pupil isn't detected.
  
  
  
  • It's possible to feed lots of e.g. airplane pictures to train the deep learning algorithm, which could then be released as the new firmware. (Wakashiro san didn't say that that's what they'll do.)
    
  • Wakashiro san tested face and eye recognition using his daughter as the subject.
    
  • Subject recognition works with auto AF points and zone select.
    
• Wakashiro: "Motion prediction algorithm is much better too" for AF.C or some such.Tanaka: "Old lenses are slow for tracking" or some such. Wakashiro: "You'll feel the difference using 300mm lens, I think."
  
  
  
  • (Not sure which 300mm, but most probably it's DA* 300mm.)
    
  • Tanaka san mentioned that AF was the subject of much trash talk and Wakashiro san agreed, but he seemed to be confident in the progress they've made.
    
• Tanaka: UHS-II is great, makes so much difference. If you buy this camera, buy UHS-II cards.
  
• Some jabs back and forth about the delay and release date, but in the end no date was mentioned. "We're in the final stretch, trying to finish it ASAP" or something. Repeated "20万円台後半" or "upper 200000 JPY range" about the price.
  
• Wakashiro (in closing): This camera has no flashy function, but a fun camera to use. It's difficult to feel that without actually handling one, so I  hope we can let you try the actual camera as soon as possible.
  
• Tanaka san agreed that it's really a fun camera to use, and said that he was very happy, like "wow you can make such a good DSLR" happy as a DSLR fan.
  

That's it for now.

Added later:

One thing which I remember is that many in the chat window were saying they wanted to see example photos at lower than ridiculously high ISO. I agree with them, I'd like to see if K-3 III at e.g. ISO12800 is better than KP at ISO6400.

[Mistral75]

Du rab' de comptes rendus. Même fil sur Pentax Forums.

There are just a few more comments that I thought were interesting. Fine Sharpness II is now on by default and apparently this makes improved the image detail significantly without any downsides. This is the reason why they decided not to include handheld pixel shift. It was never as good as pixel shift on a tripod and now the single shot performance has improved enough to make it redundant.

Tanaka-san asked about the kind of multi-shot pixel shift resolution enhancement that increases the image size, like some competitors do. Wakashiro-san said they did not necessarily need to follow what other companies are doing. However, their engineers have some ideas about this for the future. It doesn't sound like something that will be added by firmware - probably something for a future model.

Wakashiro-san mentioned that Pentax is committed to moving a head with both APS-C and full frame lines. It just happens that this major release is an APS-C one. Part of the reason for their continued commitment to APS-C is the range of high quality lenses they have brought out over the years.

I was interested with the explanation of how they managed to increase the brightness of the viewfinder despite the size increase. This is related to the change in putting the LCD viewfinder overlay under the prism rather than have it projected through the semi-transparent fro wall of the prism. That semi-transparent front wall also allowed some light to escape, reducing the brightness.

Regarding lens motors, I think the improvements in AF will be visible in current lenses. The ability to measure at more points and predict are not specifically related to the speed of the motor. The Japanese magazine review seemed to also imply that AF.C worked better with old SDM lenses too. So of course there will be limitations, but there should improvements across the board.

And I like the compactness and reliability of screwdrive lenses. As long as they find focus, I'm happy wth the mechanical noice. I quite like it actually.

When Tanaka-san said that some other makes produce larger picture with more pixels from pixel shift style tech and asked if Pentax can do the same, Wakashiro-san looked as if he didn't like the idea at first and even said something like "Really? Isn't it just like inflating by water?" (水増し, literally inflate by water, means inflating things without adding real substance), didn't he? And didn't Tanaka-san say "regardless of whatever they do, these images do look to have finer resolution" or something like that? This kind of honest exchange was one of the reasons why this particular talk was interesting to me.

I watched three more presentations today, all about the K-3 III. They were by Sho Niiro, Yu Yamauchi and Yoshiaki Kobayashi. They didn't reveal much extra about the camera. Pretty much everything has been disclosed by now anyway and we just have to wait for more independent reviews.

Kobayashi-san's was the one that went into most detail about the camera's new functions. He is a landscape and wildlife photographer and he showed a large number of winter scenes shot with various lenses, including the 560mm, the 150-450mm and most of the star series.

A few things he said:
- He is happy that the detection of intentional panning is better in the K-3 III. He was talking about situations where the panning is quite slow, such as tracking birds walking. I think he was saying that previous models used to have trouble making their mind up about whether that kind of movement was intentional panning or accidental movement. He hasn't been having trouble with that on the K-3 III.
- He has been using the AF.C for animals (mostly birds and small wildlife) and he sets this to one of the user modes, while having another set of settings for landscape on another user mode. He showed a number of shots of birds in flight, including one coming towards the camera with the 560mm. Note that he is a very experienced wildlife photographer, so there is probably a good deal of skill involved as well as the camera's assistance. He said that the design and responsiveness of the camera helps the photographer react when birds suddenly move and take flight.
- For burst shooting, he echoed what Tanaka said about the importance of UHS II for buffer clearing. It fills up, but the fact that it clears much faster makes it much easier to deal with.
- He mentioned that everything just feels faster in the user interface. He also likes the customization available in the camera, but some adjustment was required with the new menus. He likes them now.
- He usually limits the ISO to 6400, but he also showed a shot at 12800 that met his standards for trueness of colors. I think he has a low tolerance for noise, but he is happy with the expanded shooting envelope with the K-3 III.

[ViB]

Tout cela m'a mis un sourire sur mon visage ce matin.

J'espère pouvoir y passer.

exit le K1 ?

[clover]

L ideal pour moi serait les 2

[ViB]

J'adore le K1, mais il reste plus lent que le K3 premier du nom, dans certaines situations c est pénalisant
Je me mets à rêver d'un K1III boosté

[tkosak]

J'adore le K1, mais il reste plus lent que le K3 premier du nom, dans certaines situations c est pénalisant
Je me mets à rêver d'un K1III boosté

Ou d'un K-2? Dans les interviews que nous a données à lire Mistral75, l'interviewer pose la question, à propos du K-3 III :

Tanaka: "Were'nt you planning to name it K-2?" Wakashiro (laughter): "One of the candidates, yes." Tanaka: "Ah, you had to reserve that for something else, the next one?" Wakashiro (still laughing/smiling, but watch his face when the video is released): "Well, no comment."

Pour les anglophobes : Tanaka : "Vous n'aviez pas prévu de l'appeler K-2?" Wakashiro (rire) : "Une des possibilités, oui." Tanaka : "Ah,vous avez réservé ce nom pour un autre usage?" Wakashiro (toujours souriant, mais mais regardez sa tête quand la vidéo sera publiée) : "Euh, pas de commentaire."
Je trouve ce passage assez savoureux, même si pas très important.

[clover]

Quand on voit le comparatif K3v2 vs K3v3 pour dire que le nouveau sera plus compact, en effet, un K1V3 plus compact et plus rapide me dirait bien, ou même un K70 plein format avec l électronique du K3v3...

[Echo]

Merci Mistral
Pour Fab35 : "même si j'ai un chouia du mal à maitriser la langue du soleil levant !  )  Soit pas modeste fait nous une version sous-titrée 
Parfaitement d'accord avec ton analyse : surprenant de comparer avec le K1 II ! J'attends de voir les photos à 12 000 ISO avec impatience.

Il y en a déjà à 200000 et propres le tout est de pousser à 200000 et ne pas rester à 12000 puisque ce n'est pas nécéssaire.
Par contre pour moi le K3 III est parti dans une opération donc je vais pour le moment me contenter de le regarder . A priori c'est un très, très bon appareil.

[Mattihou]

Ou d'un K-2? Dans les interviews que nous a données à lire Mistral75, l'interviewer pose la question, à propos du K-3 III :Pour les anglophobes : Tanaka : "Vous n'aviez pas prévu de l'appeler K-2?" Wakashiro (rire) : "Une des possibilités, oui." Tanaka : "Ah,vous avez réservé ce nom pour un autre usage?" Wakashiro (toujours souriant, mais mais regardez sa tête quand la vidéo sera publiée) : "Euh, pas de commentaire."
Je trouve ce passage assez savoureux, même si pas très important.

J'espère que le "or later" tiendra aussi pour ce potentiel futur produit, car à investir dans le K3-III, il manquerait plus qu'à regretter de ne pas attendre un K-2 FF petit format et autre truc dans le genre qui ferait très envie 

[Grosbill01]

J'adore le K1, mais il reste plus lent que le K3 premier du nom, dans certaines situations c est pénalisant
Je me mets à rêver d'un K1III boosté

Etonnant ! J'aime aussi mes K-3 et K-1 II mais, chez moi, l'AF du K-1 II est plus rapide que celle du K-3.
Seule l'écriture des fichiers RAW est plus lente sur le K-1 II, dû au volume plus important de ses fichiers (36 vs 24 MPx) et à la même limitation de débit du UHS I.
Le K-3 III devrait être beaucoup plus rapide grâce, enfin, à l'adoption de l'UHS II.

[ViB]

Etonnant ! J'aime aussi mes K-3 et K-1 II mais, chez moi, l'AF du K-1 II est plus rapide que celle du K-3.
Seule l'écriture des fichiers RAW est plus lente sur le K-1 II, dû au volume plus important de ses fichiers (36 vs 24 MPx) et à la même limitation de débit du UHS I.
Le K-3 III devrait être beaucoup plus rapide grâce, enfin, à l'adoption de l'UHS II.

je parlais de réactivité, donc c'est un tout. Je le trouve lent au déclenchement, lent en enchaînement de prises de vue, et ralenti par le buffer qui peut saturer même en vue pas vue.
Mais ca reste un super boîtier.

Donc quand Je fais de la photo d'action je sors le K3.

[Grosbill01]

je parlais de réactivité, donc c'est un tout. Je le trouve lent au déclenchement, lent en enchaînement de prises de vue, et ralenti par le buffer qui peut saturer même en vue pas vue.
Mais ca reste un super boîtier.

Donc quand Je fais de la photo d'action je sors le K3.

Les sensations humaines sont étranges.
Dans mon cas, mon ressenti est que mon K-1 II est plus réactif que mon K-3 et donc lorsque je shoot mon fils et ses camarades en compet (championnat de France ou d'Europe), j'utilise le K-1 II. Idem lorsque je shoot du rallye automobile, ma passion. Je n'utilise le K-3 que comme boitier de secours. En général, il reste dans le coffre de la voiture.
Que ce soit pour le K-3 ou le K-1 II, je désactive tout ce qui est traitement de l'image (plage dynamique, réduction de bruit, clarté, ton chair, filtre AA, etc) afin de rendre plus rapide le boitier.

Le seul point que je ne peux pas juger car je ne l'utilise ni avec le K-3 ni avec le K-1 II, c'est la rafale. Dommage pour moi, c'est l'un des points forts du nouveau K-3 III.

[ViB]

Oui on est subjective

Pour la rafale, le K1 monté à 6,5 ips si on crop, mais je trouve plus difficile de viser dans l'action dans le viseur recadré du K1 que dans le viseur du K3

L'important c'est de se sentir en symbiose avec son matériel, je reste persuadé que c'est une condition pour réaliser de meilleurs photos.

[tkosak]

Oui on est subjective

Pour la rafale, le K1 monté à 6,5 ips si on crop, mais je trouve plus difficile de viser dans l'action dans le viseur recadré du K1 que dans le viseur du K3

L'important c'est de se sentir en symbiose avec son matériel, je reste persuadé que c'est une condition pour réaliser de meilleurs photos.

Moi t'aussi! 

[Grosbill01]

L'important c'est de se sentir en symbiose avec son matériel, je reste persuadé que c'est une condition pour réaliser de meilleurs photos.

Tu es en droite ligne avec les 5 principes de Pentax ... et dont le K-3 III est issu (27 oct 2020)

[Mattihou]

Ca y est, Pentax, on est prêt pour un nouveau teasing svp 
Des images, des raw, faire parler du produit quoi 

[petur]

J'imagine que l'attente est longue pour les amateurs d'APSC. Perso je suis impatient de voir ce que ce K3 III a dans le ventre. Le nouveau viseur, le joystick et le nouvel AF augurent de bonnes choses pour le prochain K1. Ce que j'attends surtout pour ma part c'est le 21 mm DFA Limited.

[Mistral75]

K3III officially released soon.

Source : https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/420904-new-k-3-iii-video-ricoh-ovf-face-eye-bird-detection-coming-13.html#post5229016

[Ibiscus]

Et tu le traduis, ou tu le comprends comment ? : Appareil présenté, mise en vente, photos prises avec l'appareil présentées, etc.. Comme déjà dit l'Anglais n'est pas mon fort !

[Mistral75]

Released, c'est mis en vente. Release date, c'est la date de sortie, de mise sur le marché.